tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32444916.post676663110599272464..comments2024-03-29T01:05:17.952-05:00Comments on Making Home: Being "Sexy" For Your Husband? (part three)Jess Connellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00372282510182101716noreply@blogger.comBlogger57125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32444916.post-29395500062191341392008-12-23T22:58:00.000-06:002008-12-23T22:58:00.000-06:00I know this is a very late comment, but I'm coming...I know this is a very late comment, but I'm coming to this post through Jess's end of the year roundup. After I read the post and then the comments I kept thinking about a science article I read not too long ago.<BR/><BR/>ScienceDaily: Hormone Involved In Reproduction May Have Role In The Maintenance Of Relationships<BR/>http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/07/990715062344.htm<BR/><BR/>From the article:<BR/><BR/>"In humans, oxytocin stimulates milk ejection during lactation, uterine contraction during birth, and is released during sexual orgasm in both men and women. . . . Because oxytocin is released in men and women during sexual orgasm, it may be involved in adult bonding, said [Rebecca Turner, PhD, UCSF adjunct assistant professor of psychiatry]. There is also speculation that in addition to facilitating lactation and the birthing process, the hormone facilitates the emotional bond between mother and child."<BR/><BR/>It just illustrates how sex in a marriage is more than just a release, and reminds me how thoughtfully and intricately we have been created.Tamihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09397813846279589526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32444916.post-68198185082819961052008-07-01T09:07:00.000-05:002008-07-01T09:07:00.000-05:00Jess,Thanks for these posts about sex in marriage....Jess,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for these posts about sex in marriage. I really appreciated what you said about pornography not having a place in marriage. I work for a ministry called Covenant Eyes that helps people stay away from the temptation and/or addiction of Internet pornography. I wrote a series of blog posts about pornography's effects on marriage and we've receieved a lot of comments about them.<BR/><BR/>1. Husbands Who Watch Porn - http://www.covenanteyes.com/blog/2008/03/11/husbands-who-watch-porn-what-are-their-wives-saying/<BR/><BR/>2. Myths About Pornography - http://www.covenanteyes.com/blog/2008/06/10/myths-about-pornography/<BR/><BR/>Have you heard of Covenant Eyes before? I would love to let you know more about it because we've been able to help tens of thousands of people break free from the destructive influence of pornography. I see your blog has a lot of readers and I would love to let them know that there are resources out there, like Covenant Eyes, to help them. Please let me know if you would like some pamphlets about Covenant Eyes to give out to people at your church.<BR/><BR/>In His Grip,<BR/>Luke Gilkerson<BR/>www.CovenantEyes.com/BlogAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32444916.post-20640952693795036692008-04-21T11:17:00.000-05:002008-04-21T11:17:00.000-05:00HI everyone!My name is Christina Smith and I own o...HI everyone!<BR/><BR/>My name is Christina Smith and I own one of the websites listed at the top of this post. First I want to thank Jess for even mentioning our site because it lets us know that other Christians are looking for what we are doing and that change.<BR/><BR/>First I want to make sure that everyone knows that Jess is not associated with us in any way.<BR/><BR/>But as I was reading some of the comments I had to mention who we are as a business. We have found only a couple of suppliers that are classy as far as how we can present anything on our website from than and we have been trying hard to not allow anything that would constitute a p*rn look. We have recently phased out one supplier due to their products we felt weren't up to standards in many ways mentioned in the comments I have seen. And we never put any nudity on our site and not sure what one person was talking about above mentioning nudity in the sites. Our toys we call the supplier about packaging to make sure that the packaging is safe and has no nudity or demeaning language on it. (I don't consider "sex lube" is demeaning since that is what it is mostly for") We remove any tags that are on the products due to the nature of the photo's. We strongly agree that you should talk to your husband or wife before ordering any kind of lingerie or toys so you are in sync with each other. As we also agree that there are also limits on the items that I do we be shouldn't sell. For instance you will NOT see us selling any vibrators that look like a mans penis because we feel that that item has been made to look like that mans so in essence you are allowing that man into your bed. We pray about all the things on our site and there have been times that God HAS told us to remove things or not add thing or go to another supplier and we LISTEN to Him because He is the One who has made this beautiful thing called sex for us to ENJOY. I used to be one of those people who was struggling to know what is truly right in a relationship and we feel that there has to be limits in no matter what you do, and thats why we do what we do and know that no tall things are beneficial. These things are only between you, your spouse, and God and thats where it needs to stay.<BR/><BR/>I pray blessings on all of you and pray hearts are healed!!<BR/><BR/>God Bless!!<BR/><BR/>Christina<BR/>Passions Lingerie and GiftsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32444916.post-74060103879991464972008-03-08T03:25:00.000-06:002008-03-08T03:25:00.000-06:00Hi Laurie,Thanks so much for leaving your comments...Hi Laurie,<BR/>Thanks so much for leaving your comments... viewpoints like yours are so valuable in a discussion like this.<BR/><BR/>As for 'sex enhancers'... I don't think it's a *necessary* thing, obviously. But it's an area of freedom, I think. Kind of like beer-battered bread. Do I personally drink alcohol? No. But if I wanted to make a great loaf of beer-battered bread for my family, then I'd go into a store where beer was sold (which isn't in my normal "line up" of shopping) and buy some to use to bless my family. This, I think, is a similar thing. It's optional-- but such things *can* be used to bless a God-honoring marriage. This is the way I see it; obviously, others view these things differently, but I think as long as we are not "mastered by anything" and as long as it is "beneficial" for our own marriage, then it is "permissible".<BR/><BR/>As for how to talk with our growing children about these things, well, that's all just theory for me right now. I mean, we've introduced the basic ideas of how babies are made as our sons have asked... but as far as these kind of detailed things, I have absolutely no experience to offer.<BR/><BR/>I will say that I have some very good friends and mentors who have moved into more specific and detailed discussions of intimacy with their marriage-aged daughters... nothing tawdry or worldly, but just talking through the sexual issues of our culture (lust/modesty, date rape, discussing pop culture in a biblical light, etc.), as well as being open to answering questions from their daughters about marital oneness. That is where, as far as I can tell, we'll have to be so careful and seek the Lord's wisdom. Some daughters would ask TOO many details (personal things about her parents' intimacy, for example), whereas some daughters will be *dying* to ask appropriate and legitimate questions but won't have the guts. So we're going to, at that point, pray fervently for God to show us how much should be said and how much should be left as a mystery for she and her husband to unwrap together.<BR/><BR/>And I think that concept (that you don't have to know everything at the beginning, but that it's like a wonderful present that you keep opening and unwrapping and finding deeper and deeper levels of joy and fun together) is what primarily needs to be shared with daughters and sons. That intimacy as a married couple can grow better and better as you grow closer and closer to each other and to the Lord.<BR/><BR/>As for wondering what your husband is alluding to, I'd encourage you to ask him outright what he means. You may be embarrassed-- but what better person to be "naked and unashamed" (intellectually/emotionally) in front of than your own husband? Ask him what he's implying, or what he wants to do or try, etc. <BR/><BR/>I personally have found that a good sense of humor and adventure are GREAT qualities to have in such matters... being able to try something together to see if it's fun or pleasurable, and being able to laugh it off if it ends up being a flop. So I'd encourage you to be open to your husband's leading in these things and see what fun might be waiting for you just a little deeper in this mysterious gift of marital intimacy God has given you.<BR/><BR/>I'd love to hear any further thoughts you may have on this. Thanks for dropping by!<BR/>~JessJess Connellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00372282510182101716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32444916.post-54677029000475357142008-03-08T00:41:00.000-06:002008-03-08T00:41:00.000-06:00Hi Jess-I am totally new to this website. I found ...Hi Jess-I am totally new to this website. I found you through the Ladies Against Feminism website. In looking over your site here you seem like a "kindred spirit" in the Lord. I think it is also providential that I "happened" upon this discusssion. My husband and I have been married 8 years and have 3 children. I am busy, tired, and my husband works long hours (it is 10:00p.m. now on Friday and he is not here yet). Intimacy is something we "sneak in" to the schedule where we can. He seems to enjoy it as far as I can tell. It is not such a big deal to me but I try to put on as much "to do" about it as I can. Candles and fancy nightgowns I've found are not my husbands sort of thing. I must say though, from reading here , that what keeps coming to mind is "How on earth would a person conceive of 'sex enhancers' *I still don't know what these things are* if we have been raised without seeing these things in movies and advertising (I never have...I've never watched an R rated movie, never read a sexually explicit book (except the Song of Solomon!:) and never looked at pictures of such. At what point would a daughter be educated in such areas? I was a virgin when I got married and had always tried to be careful and to dress modestly (though attractively--I certainly had no lack of suitors.) I wash ;-), brush my hair, wear perfume and try to vary my wardrobe. I just can't imagine what ELSE a person would think of if NOT exposed to some of the more seamy sides of life. Sometimes my husband alludes to things in his conversations with me that I have NO idea what he's talking about!! Surely I'm not the only one who feels like this. I almost feel like we should include some of this topic with our children before marriage beyond simly "sex is a good thing....Just be open with your husband". It is hard to even conceive of that kind of openness for one who has been careful in these areas and never discussed such matters prior to marriage. I guess we get a "crash course" but it certainly isn;t easy!! I appreciate the opportunity of getting these troubling and somewhat delicate thoughts out into the open and look forward to any help you may be able to offer!<BR/>-LaurieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32444916.post-60842726129721155652008-03-02T01:20:00.000-06:002008-03-02T01:20:00.000-06:00Wow this is SUCH an awesome topic. Thank you, Jess...Wow this is SUCH an awesome topic. Thank you, Jess. While many of us may disagree, this OBVIOUSLY needs to be discussed. Awesome that we are talking about it!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32444916.post-44759187575768860072008-02-27T16:32:00.000-06:002008-02-27T16:32:00.000-06:00Dear Anonymous RE husband/sex:My heart has ached f...Dear Anonymous RE husband/sex:<BR/><BR/>My heart has ached for you since I read this post, in fact, I have lifted you to the Father so many times over the past days. <BR/><BR/>In reading your post, something came to me and I may be way off base - but it seems to me that perhaps sex isn't really the issue in your marriage but the "thing" that both of you hold against the other, in a way. Of course, I don't know you or your marriage situation but...<BR/><BR/>I think the book Love and Respect address' this in some ways - our husbands feel loved, validated and respected when we give ourselves to them with open hearts (not grudgingly); in the same way we feel loved, valued and cherished when they take time to hear our hearts. So is it possible that is one of the ways your husband feels loved, validated and respected; so he desires this from you while you are misinterpreting his request? Do you speak blessings into his life? Do you pray for his day, for his tenderness, affection and attention in a way that makes you feel loved? Do you pray for his wife, that 'she' can have a heart for her husband that honors, respects and values him? I'm just so sad that you have not experienced the kind of deep intimate connection that is a true gift from the Father...<BR/><BR/>Continuing to lift you friend, <BR/>LaurelAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32444916.post-9618721805519680892008-02-27T13:29:00.000-06:002008-02-27T13:29:00.000-06:00To the last anonymous commentator:It is not that s...To the last anonymous commentator:<BR/><BR/>It is not that sex is all a husband wants. He wants LOVE, and where love exists, it wants to express itself in that area as well. Husbands are not 'animals', which is why a loving husband is not content simply with the act done in a begrudging manner by his wife. He is rather pleased when there is joy on her part, in giving herself to him. I do know that my husband would find no pleasure in any other woman, even if to me she looked as much more attractive physically. He wants ME. And I know he enjoys our intimate encounters most when there is joy and passion on my part as well, which speaks loudly of the fact that it's not just the physical side of it that matters to a man. <BR/><BR/>I am truly sorry if you haven't experienced this. A good loving husband would be selflessly devoted to his wife even if she could never make love to him anymore due to some accident or infirmity. He would still care for her and love her and God would give him grace to be faithful to her. But if she was physically able to have an intimate relationship with him and refused, that says something about her. True love longs to give itself to the other and to express itself in all possible ways. <BR/><BR/>Mrs. PAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32444916.post-60387216707025255232008-02-27T12:06:00.000-06:002008-02-27T12:06:00.000-06:00Anonymous,My heart hurts for you. There have actu...Anonymous,<BR/>My heart hurts for you. There have actually been several responses to your post... <BR/><BR/>Catherine R, right after your post, commented on your concerns. Kelly's first post addressed your question. Elizabeth added some thoughts in regard to your comment. Then Catherine R again addressed some of your thoughts in her 2nd comment towards the bottom. Laurel's comment at 3:43 AM on Feb 27th also addressed some of your concerns. You've actually gotten a wealth of responses, which is why I haven't personally responded.<BR/><BR/>But I will do so now. It is not that "sex is so important that it overshadows everything else"... rather, God designed sex as the culmination of the marriage. Physical oneness is a visible and palpable expression of our emotional and spiritual oneness before God. God designed it to be so. <BR/><BR/>I've said before (and heard others say) if you aren't willing to allow your body to become someone else's, then you ought not get married. 1 Cor. 7 makes it clear that once you get married, "your body is not your own". You no longer hold "ownership papers" of your own body anymore. Nope-- you trade. You suddenly have ownership rights over HIS body, and he has ownership rights over yours. Sex is the God-designed expression of marriage. It's the deal that makes marriage different. You can do "99 out of 100 things" for any man... your father, a brother, an elderly neighbor (have conversations, be an encouragement, make meals, and spend time hanging out with them)... but sex is THE deal that sets a marriage apart. <BR/><BR/>It is not that your worth is based on sex, but rather that marriage is solidified and consummated by sex. That's what makes marriage distinctive. <BR/><BR/>I am so <B>very</B> sorry that it makes you feel devalued and sad... for me, it gives me joy to know that when God created me, He not only was thinking of me, but He was thinking of Doug. And the same goes for when He made Doug-- He made HIM with ME in mind-- what a thrill, and what a gift!<BR/><BR/>I would encourage you to find a pastor or counselor who can work with you one on one and show you, from God's Word, where your self-worth and value as a human being comes from -- from the very image and mind of God. He finds you precious and beautiful, and very much delightful in every way-- in spirit and in body. He created you and has known you from before the foundations of the world. You are indeed very valuable... and I am so sorry that you have been made to feel otherwise. <BR/><BR/>Blessings,<BR/>JessJess Connellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00372282510182101716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32444916.post-4619645113338726542008-02-27T11:38:00.000-06:002008-02-27T11:38:00.000-06:00I am the anonymous commenter who asked for someone...I am the anonymous commenter who asked for someone (specifically husbands) to explain why sex is so important that it overshadows everything else in a marriage. And I have not seen any responses. Am I to conclude that no man (or woman) is able to give an answer?<BR/>I'm struggling with why it is that my husband's love for me rests on whether or not we have sex. If we do not have sex, then it is grounds for divorce, as if all the other aspects of my personhood mean nothing. This is what I don't understand about men. Why is it that I can be the "perfect" wife and meet 99 out of 100 criteria, but the sex is the make-it or break-it point? <BR/>Is my worth solely based on sex? This is the message I hear all around me, that as a woman, my only purpose is to give up my body for my husband. If I don't, then he is justified in leaving me or in seeking release elsewhere. It makes me wish I was never born to know that my mind and my heart have no value over what's between my legs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32444916.post-22194869578095507172008-02-27T07:58:00.000-06:002008-02-27T07:58:00.000-06:00Laurel, what a beautiful reply to Catherine R. You...Laurel, what a beautiful reply to Catherine R. You have such a beautiful heart! <BR/><BR/>Jess, thank you for tackling these hard issues. You, too, are such a beautiful and wise woman. <BR/><BR/>Love ya both! <BR/><BR/>--O2R =o)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32444916.post-15294464973587705802008-02-27T01:30:00.000-06:002008-02-27T01:30:00.000-06:00Tamara wrote: "I would also say the definition of ...Tamara wrote: "I would also say the definition of outside influences is pretty vague. Does that include people who sell sheets? Perfume? Condoms? Pillows? Nightgowns? All those things go into pleasurable moments in my marriage, and it never occurred to me that we are allowing other people to be a part of our relationship by default."<BR/><BR/>Tamara, I addressed that specific point, but you may have not read it. Here it is again:<BR/><BR/>"What I referred to was the idea of a couple doing certain intimate activities because they were prompted/scripted to do so by cards/games devised by someone else. Such as "talk dirty to me" (which was on one of those pages).<BR/>Using pajamas or towels or any other such thing produced by a third party is another story altogether. I at least see a big difference."<BR/><BR/>Mrs. PAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32444916.post-28319534712702941232008-02-26T19:43:00.000-06:002008-02-26T19:43:00.000-06:00Catherine R, I really appreciate what you said abo...Catherine R, I really appreciate what you said about husbands having feelings too. I feel terribly sad when I read that there are ladies out there who think sex is all their husbands want. It breaks my heart...<BR/><BR/>The way we deeply desire and even NEED to be heard emotionally - is the same way that men feel about that intimate release. If your husband rolled his eyes every time you opened your mouth or desired to be heard emotionally, you would surely perish!! It is MUCH more than a simple physical NEED for men. They are opening themselves, to be most vulnerable and open in a way that is extremely tender (as we all are when we are intimate) and to deny him of that or think all he wants is sex with anyone who could fit the bill, is heart wrenching, to say the least.<BR/><BR/>God has created men to be affirmed (emotionally, physically and in so many other ways) through intimacy. He created woman to need relationships, tenderness, and love, to name a few. He created us to compliment one another - to love each other selflessly and passionately.<BR/><BR/>If you think your man is only out for sex - I encourage you to pray for him, and his wife. It makes me so sad to see this in Christian marriages, especially. What ever the question, prayer is the answer...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32444916.post-10188611375152103122008-02-26T19:17:00.000-06:002008-02-26T19:17:00.000-06:00I wanted to address Holly's comment: "I have a BIG...I wanted to address Holly's comment: "I have a BIG problem (when I really, really think about it) with ANYBODY making money from sex or sexual products. That seems to taint it, and leave it ripe for abuse."<BR/><BR/>I think it's naive to think that Christians haven't bought toys and other marital aids in the past. Anything can be used in a negative way but that doesn't make it wrong across the board.<BR/><BR/>I am just thankful for Christian sites that do their best to present the products and materials in a respectable fashion and help remove some of the negative feel that has overshadowed them for so long. So, if the products are going to be purchased anyway, I'd rather it go to them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32444916.post-38937291981922706092008-02-26T15:55:00.000-06:002008-02-26T15:55:00.000-06:00LOL, Tamara... you know me- I've not been one to s...LOL, Tamara... you know me- I've not been one to shy away from controversy here. :) I knew the links would really push the lines for some people. But sometimes I just like to push lines, particularly when they have possibly been drawn for reasons other than biblical ones. <BR/><BR/>Thanks for adding your thoughts to the mix... your comments were very thought-provoking. I've read back through them a couple times just to be sure I didn't miss anything you said. Thanks for jumping into the boiling pot with me! :)<BR/>~JessJess Connellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00372282510182101716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32444916.post-50336950641155555862008-02-26T15:38:00.000-06:002008-02-26T15:38:00.000-06:00Argh. You draw me back. :) Seriously, after thi...Argh. You draw me back. :) Seriously, after this, I must be done. Enough pleasure for the day. :) (That's a grin....)<BR/><BR/>Actually, Tamara, I DO choose a pretty simplistic life. That is purposeful. But it is not without deep and abiding joy. It is with appreciation for God's beauty and creation and all that He has given. I often and usually choose less, so that I may have and give more. That is not self-righteous...but you asked. It is just how my family and I choose to live our lives.<BR/><BR/>And, as a matter of fact, I've not spent much on myself for months. I have eight children and my husband was unemployed for 6 months when we moved closer to take care of my elderly parents. (And I had my last child during that time.) I have utterly delighted in small blessings. It is a good good good way to live. It has been so good to see His hand of provision. I give ALL glory to Him and thank Him so much for the way He has cared for us.<BR/><BR/>I DO tend to have a sarcastic nature, and am a purist at heart. I think it does us all well to thoroughly examine everything this world throws at us. I don't think we have to believe that something is good for us just because an author of a book says so. We should weigh it ourselves.<BR/><BR/>But I never intended to harm anyone with my comments. I DO speak boldly, to try to place what I see as hard truths before us. Please accept my apologies if you have been wounded. If you have asked God about these things and feel complete and utter peace and joy within your hearts, then please, imbibe. <BR/><BR/>Anyway, thank you for your concern for me. :) I send you my best.<BR/><BR/>In Him,Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32444916.post-57935404974186583352008-02-26T15:27:00.000-06:002008-02-26T15:27:00.000-06:00Oops. I should have said "hits" to your site. So...Oops. I should have said "hits" to your site. Sorry about that! Desiring to be consistent! :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32444916.post-38782150051392394002008-02-26T14:42:00.000-06:002008-02-26T14:42:00.000-06:00Well written, CM.I don't see the fine line, Jess.D...Well written, CM.<BR/><BR/>I don't see the fine line, Jess.<BR/><BR/>Does it not bother you that these things are created by an industry that is fiscally tied in to pornography? It does not bother me due to wounding. Jesus has healed me, praise Him! :) It bothers me because of WHO actually produces it. Just because someone doesn't "see" it doesn't mean it isn't there. Check out these products. Trace them and see who MAKES them and SELLS them!<BR/><BR/>Most perfumes probably originated from the oils of plants and flowers. I would think that many innocent girls have worn it all thru the ages without shame.<BR/><BR/>Regarding marital aids...I still just don't see the use of electronic machines to "turn on" a Christian. I think when the scriptures say "Let His love satisfy me" they just didn't imagine a cord attached. Why are the marital aids shaped like male humans? Usually, because people use these when they are alone, not when they are in a loving relationship. (And again, I believe that people who need true help in the physical realm could benefit from some of these things.<BR/><BR/>Regarding lingerie...I agree with CM too...<BR/><BR/>I will remove my links to this series, because I have already seen hundreds of hits on my own dashboard to the sites you mentioned. Silly of me. I just can't leave it up.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Well my time here is done today! Lots of other things to do! :) Grace and peace to all of you, and blessings upon your marriages. <BR/><BR/>Love your blog, think you're great, and send you best wishes for the upcoming birth of your little one.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32444916.post-51412293022868733932008-02-26T14:41:00.000-06:002008-02-26T14:41:00.000-06:00Can I just add that it bothers me and some other w...Can I just add that it bothers me and some other women, probably like one of the above anonymous commentors, to think that men have no emotions and are simply sex robots. I think when Christians talk about this topic it sometimes comes off as if women need to simply be their husband's hooker. He pays for her to eat and she "gives it up" or administers his sex medicine so that his head won't explode from not having sex every 72 hours or less. And, he pretty much forces himself to "love" her when he really only loves that she has sex with him. Can I just say that my husband cries sometimes? Yes, I know men need sex but let's remember that they do have feelings too *gasp!* I don't mean to be a rable rouser, it just bothers me personally when it seems like people are trying to convince me that women are simply monogomous prostitutes in their husband's eyes.Catherine R.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17270456247724661532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32444916.post-24738612479575022302008-02-26T14:20:00.000-06:002008-02-26T14:20:00.000-06:00Hooo, boy, Jess, you sure brought them out of the ...Hooo, boy, Jess, you sure brought them out of the woodwork with this one! :-D<BR/><BR/>There are a lot of different things in the comments here that are sparking thoughts for me, but I'll stick to just a couple.<BR/><BR/>It has been my experience that while "Christian" sites that provide intimacy aids are typically pretty good about blurring images on products so you can't see them via their website, the fact is those images ARE on the products you might buy, so when they arrive at your doorstep you are going to be subjecting yourself to those pornographic images. Some of the sites are NOT so discreet, and I'll be quite honest and tell you I would not want my husband perusing them. I think it's shameful for some of these products to be tauted on these Christian marriage sites, they are no different than images you might find in the very magazines that we condemn.<BR/><BR/>I am NOT saying I think the products themselves are sinful. In no way do I feel that way. However, I think if they ARE permissible for the Christian couple, then God will provide a way for us to obtain and use them WITHOUT sinning, and that includes the sin of immodesty and lust. I do not know what the answer is, but if I were someone running a Christian marital aid business, I would request different packaging for the products that I sold if they involved any type of nudity. But that's just me. If that could not be obtained, then, well...that's not a product I would sell, plain and simple. I always wonder what those "Christian couples" who run such sites subject themselves to when they are deciding what products to sell, and if that's permissible in the eyes of God. <BR/><BR/>As for allowing outside influences into your sexual relationship, I can tell you straight up that if I had NOT allowed "outside influences" (in my case, books) into my understanding of a sexual relationship with my husband, I would have NO idea what was going on, why what happens happens, or how things work. That's just the plain, simple, honest truth. My father was absent and my mother taught me NOTHING. By nothing I mean nothing. When I started my period, she said, "Don't talk about this at school." That was IT. On my own, I had to seek out information and figure things out for myself at the ripe old age of 11. By the time I was in highschool, I understood the mechanics of sex, but that was about it. The deeper, pleasurable, instinctual aspects of sexual behavior was something I did not understand until I allowed "outside influences" into my relationship AFTER I was married. <BR/><BR/>I would also say the definition of outside influences is pretty vague. Does that include people who sell sheets? Perfume? Condoms? Pillows? Nightgowns? All those things go into pleasurable moments in my marriage, and it never occurred to me that we are allowing other people to be a part of our relationship by default. Those things are things created by strangers whom we do not know and have no influence over us personally. I would liken it, I guess, to the lingerie, etc, that were given to me at a shower by my sisters and friends. They had some influence on what I had available to wear, but that influence had no bearing whatsoever on our intimacy itself.<BR/><BR/>To the poster above, Holly: You mention that you would approve of marital aids for the infirm, but that for everyone else our bodies should be enough. First of all, because of the Fall of man, we are all "infirm". We don't consider ourselves that way in a day-to-day way, but our bodies are not the shining examples of beauty, function, and health that God created them to be. I think the sexual relationship between Adam and Eve was MUCH different than it is for us. Their bodies were in peak condition and thus their performance was likely much more impressive (if you will). Sexuality is an intricate study and varies a lot from person to person. Some people claim this to be part of the "great mystery" of sexuality that God intentionally designed, however, in my experience it can be very, very frustrating and disheartening. I do NOT think that God intended for sex to be a frustrating and disappointing experience within the bounds of Christian marriage. Consequently to say our "bodies should be enough" is simply insensitive. The fact is that if a husband or wife loves their spouse, they will do what it takes to meet their needs, including expressing that love and oneness through sexual gratification. That includes making allowances for the intricacies of a woman's response and a man's longevity. If there is something that the couple, within the bounds of Christian liberty, can do to make it a less frustrating or more pleasurable time for either or both of them, then that's between them and God, and no one else. I think it's misguided to suggest that someone who is "infirm" gets a pass on marital aids that might make sexual activity easier and/or more enjoyable, while leaving everyone else to a "bodies only" standard. <BR/>It's like saying, OK, we're supposed to get this done, and those people need some help, so it's OK if they use tools. The goal here is shared intimacy between loving partners, not accomplishing a goal. And I can say this as someone who is considered "infirm."<BR/><BR/><I>"Sorry God. I can't sponsor that orphan child because I needed the $30 Matador toy? I have seen things like "swings" that sell for $500 to enhance the experience. Is that a good way to spend our money? We really do have to answer for this one day! </I><BR/><BR/>This, I think, is what shocks me the most here. How far are you willing to take this? Seriously, it is SO important that we as Christians be consistent! My friends and my sisters often get a good chuckle because I emphasize consistency so emphatically, but if you are not consistent, your foundation is full of holes and eventually one of them is going to be big enough for you to fall through! Think about this...how far are you willing to go on this? The "orphan child" comment is so far over the top it's almost comical. Are you not going to buy yourself ANYthing that brings you happiness because there is an orphan child to sponsor? No books to read, no going to a movie, no trips to the theme park, no dessert, nothing pretty for your home, etc? Because if you're going to jump in that pit, it's going to take you a lifetime to crawl out. God provides us with pleasure. He delights in our enjoying Him and the things He provides us. We are to delight in His creation, and that includes each other. We are not to be sullen and always looking for some new plight to remedy, but to enjoy the myriad pleasures He gives us as glimpses of joy awaiting us in Heaven. <BR/><BR/>There will ALWAYS be orphans to sponsor, there will always be things for us to work on and fix, people to reach out to and missions to fulfill. But that is not ALL we are here for. We are here to bring God glory, and that entails a lot more than feeding orphans. This statement simply reeks of self-righteousness and as your fellow Christian I would ask that you re-evaluate it. I am sure there are things you do for yourself that bring you joy or pleasure where the money could be "better spent" considering the state of the world we live in. I have a feeling that since you disapprove of marital aids, you are willing to go even to the lengths of calling them "unnecessary indulgences" and thus poor stewardship. That is quite a leap to make.<BR/><BR/>Beyond that, concentrating only on the sadness and need that are in the world will send us spiraling into despair. Even Jesus took time off and went to parties with his friends. The lame still stumbled by and the blind still felt along the walls, but Jesus made time to drink wine and laugh with those He loved. <BR/>God gave us sexual intimacy for pleasure, and it's something easily enjoyed even when the world is falling apart. I don't think that was unintentional at all.*~Tamara~*https://www.blogger.com/profile/06459404172856021413noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32444916.post-31458699538048847982008-02-26T13:58:00.000-06:002008-02-26T13:58:00.000-06:00Hi. I was the anonymous back around comment #11 o...Hi. I was the anonymous back around comment #11 or so who asked <BR/><BR/><I>"Am I the only one who associates those types of 'toys' with the 'world'? I'd love to hear from you and your readers on the benefits of using those types of toys/tools in your physical relationship."</I><BR/><BR/>Thanks for all the responses - from all perspectives. I wasn't asking for hard and fast rules, just voicing that I felt uncomfortable when looking at the products sold on the websites listed. I do have a deep wound from p*rn, due to a brother who is entrenched in it. My feeling when I saw the products was, "those are things __________ would want to buy, not me." I do have to wonder who is selling them and creating them. I don't feel comfortable with the lingerie styles shown on the website listed, either. They look ugly to me, like stripper clothing, not something a woman would want to wear in a pure relationship with her husband.<BR/><BR/>I recognize that sex is a gift from God - a beautiful gift that provides analogies for us of the depth of our Heavenly Father's love for us, so I don't want to underestimate the need to place it as a top priority in your marital relationship. At the same time, I think we are filtering our 'need' for better sex, more creative sex, etc., through an American mindset. How might we counsel a woman in a difficult marriage who lived in a third world country? "Go online and get some of these toys, they'll really help you out so much!" or, "You really need to get one of these lingerie outfits." No! We would look to scripture to find out what love really is: laying down one's life for another. We would remind her of the Groom who provides her true identity. Abide in <B>Him</B>, that the fruit of the Spirit would be evident in your marriage. <B>Growing in communication, respect, gentleness, patience, self-control ... these are the truest and most attractive "lingerie" we could ever put on for our husbands.</B><BR/><BR/>I am not saying that Christians who do use aids are wrong. And I am not saying that lingerie is not appropriate. (pretty nightgowns are so much fun!) I do wonder about our choices, though, and think that they are based a lot more on our American background than we would like to admit. Where we could choose deeper communication, humility and transparency, are we instead choosing worldly clothing and toys? What are our motives in the choices that we make? Do we subscribe to the ideals of the sexual revolution or are we committed to a life walking in the liberty of the Spirit?<BR/><BR/>-CMAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32444916.post-53464087168594198962008-02-26T13:42:00.000-06:002008-02-26T13:42:00.000-06:00I will say this Jess: Your blog is NEVER boring! ;...I will say this Jess: Your blog is NEVER boring! ;-) I really don't have much to add, but it is good that you give us pause to consider these things from a Biblical perspective rather than just a feelings perspective. I'm sure there are many husbands who would appreciate the discussion you have initiated here!Elspeth https://www.blogger.com/profile/17495546895657214080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32444916.post-5496006810012666192008-02-26T13:27:00.000-06:002008-02-26T13:27:00.000-06:00Holly,I think you're treading a fine line... I und...Holly,<BR/>I think you're treading a fine line... I understand you have a history with porn, and so this may indeed be an area of sensitivity and proper conviction for you. But the key words in that sentence are "for you". Just as the previous commenter (AmyK) mentioned, we need not condemn others for areas where they feel freedom.<BR/><BR/><BR/>You said:<BR/><I>Kelly, hon, I don't think there's anything wrong with helping an infirmity...so to speak.<BR/><BR/>As to perfume and make up and lingerie...those things were around long before sex toys. That is not the specific mimicry of the porn industry.</I><BR/><BR/>I just wanted to point out that makeup and perfume and lingerie probably <I>are</I> mimicing the prostitutes of days gone by. Sure, it existed before print media... but it really isn't any different in terms of theory. It's just that plastic hadn't yet been invented. Just because something can be used for evil (sex itself is a good example) does not mean that it in itself IS evil. Just because a thing *for you* is connected with evil things does not mean that it conjures up the same feelings and sensitivities for others. For some couples, there may be a sensitivity towards lingerie because of past experiences, or towards parking in a car, or towards any other intimate activity. But all of these things (games, toys, lingerie, removing clothes for the viewing pleasure of one's partner, etc...) are discretionary, whereas adultery (for example) is not in any way discretionary.<BR/><BR/>That's why I titled this question "what is <B>DEFINITELY OFF-LIMITS</B> for Christian marriages?" ... because there are many gray areas that we each have to sort through, but there ARE things (like porn itself, or outright involving other people in your intimacy) that are without question off-limits for Christians. But this area really is an area of personal conviction- we need not make more guidelines for others outside of what is expressed in the Bible.<BR/><BR/>~JessJess Connellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00372282510182101716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32444916.post-2141734654982102582008-02-26T13:13:00.000-06:002008-02-26T13:13:00.000-06:00Thank you Jess for posting this series. It encour...Thank you Jess for posting this series. It encourages me to see issues that are so close to my heart discussed. It hurts my heart to read comments that IMPLY that a "good" marriage shouldn't "need" aids. Some of us struggle for various reason and need assistance in these areas. As long as we are following the guidelines stated above I say FREEDOM is in CHRIST. <BR/><BR/>I always refer back to Romans 14 when discussions seem so divided. God is working on all of us in different ways and at different times. We have to allow that we are not all on the same page when a matter is not specifically discussed in Scripture. Vs. 22 sums it up perfectly "22 So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin." So, if God convicts you that it is sinful to do something then for you it is. But if God does not give me the same conviction then for me (unless clearly outlined in scripture) it is not. Take alcohol, for some they feel they are called not to let it touch their lips, for other believers - they feel no such calling. Who is sinning? Neither.<BR/><BR/>Blessings,<BR/>Amy KAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32444916.post-83670244129942740132008-02-26T12:43:00.000-06:002008-02-26T12:43:00.000-06:00One more. (Do you have a limit, Jess?)Regarding t...One more. (Do you have a limit, Jess?)<BR/><BR/>Regarding the "all things are permissable." Why do people often stop there?<BR/><BR/>It says, "All things are permissable, not all things are beneficial."<BR/><BR/>That is to say..."No, we're not going to set a law about this. But weigh these things, for not all things are best for you." Freedom isn't license to really do anything we want. With freedom comes the responsibility to self-regulate.<BR/><BR/>Because, yeah, I can choose to do MANY things, and no one could really point to scripture that outlaws them. Smoking would be a good example. Nothing says, I can't do that. But medical research says that it wouldn't be good for my body.<BR/><BR/>Some things, because of what they lend to the downfall of society and the dulling of the Christian's heart, should not be indulged in.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com